Podcast transcript – PC Mark Allan and James from Anglia Ruskin University

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University - The collaboration is really popular. The fact that this is a fully integrated program with ARU and Kent Police. When it comes to the learning and development that we're providing, that the right people are delivering the right material.

The most important thing is always going to be how an individual can prepare to become a really good and effective police officer,

Acting sergeant Mark Allan - and our trainers and your trainers work together, to understand those student officers and to really get the most out of them.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University - The reward of getting a degree to show for your efforts, is a reward in itself you know, the award that you get is a Bachelor of Science with Honours in Professional Policing Practice, and that is a fantastic sort of accreditation for all of the work that a student officer has put in as part of their police training.

The programs are fully financed by Kent Police and Anglia Ruskin University, and it probably goes one step beyond, being able to say that the student officer doesn't have to pay for the degree, they are getting a salary as well. It's work-based learning.

Every assignment that you do, throughout the rest of your journey, is about reflecting on the experiences that you've had as a police officer, and researching areas of police that you have a personal passion for, or perhaps that Kent Police have an active need for you to explore.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan - The transferable skills you talk about, the critical thinking, the analysis, the ability to problem solve to know where to go to find data or find answers to questions.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University - Find out all about it, get as much information as you can, I think that's the biggest piece of advice I can give. It's all out there, but you've got to do a little bit of work to get it, just learn about what it means and make sure that it's right for you. [Music].

Acting sergeant Mark Allan - Welcome to More Than the Badge, a Kent Police podcast. My name is Acting Sergeant Mark Allan, and I will be your host. Today's episode is with James Emsden from Anglia Ruskin University.

Welcome to the podcast James.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University - Thank you for having me, Mark.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – So, we are here to talk about some entry routes into Kent Police. There's four main routes into policing for Kent Police. We have our police constable entry program, or PCEP program, which is force run.

We have our PPD program which is for potential recruits who have gone to university already and obtained a qualification in policing, but we're here specifically to talk about the two other routes, which is the Police Constable Degree Apprenticeship, the PCDA program, and the Degree Holder’s Entry Program or the DHEP, which we run in collaboration with yourselves at Anglia Ruskin University.

So, before we get into exactly what those relate to and provide information to people watching this podcast, tell us about yourself James, and your role at Anglia Ruskin University.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – I'm Deputy Head of Police Education for Operations at Anglia Ruskin University. I work on the seven forces contract, which includes Kent Police. I'm a former police officer myself. I've been working for Anglia Ruskin University for about 11 years now as well so, across both industries I've got about 18 years’ worth of experience.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – I work in training and work alongside Anglia Ruskin University delivering that training, and I was thinking about this before we started this podcast. I think, since we started this program, in March 2022, with our first delivery. So, soon enough it'll be three years in, to this program and prior to 2022, ARU and Kent Police have been working together on this program in 2020.

What benefit do you think collaboration has, us working together, delivering this program?

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – I think there's a huge amount of benefits, we can learn from each other of course. I think from an individual's point of view, the extra skills that the university can help to deliver in addition to the expertise of the police officers is fantastic, and there's a huge amount of overlap between the kind of critical thinking and research skills that a degree level program can give you that can then be used in the police force as well. So, the most important thing is always going to be how an individual can prepare to become a really good and effective police officer, regardless of what entry route that you join on, but those extra bits that you get through being on one of the ARU programs, can only serve you well. Those additional skills that you get, whether it is investigating a crime, completing the paperwork that goes alongside that, it all works together really nicely, and it all leads you to be the best police officer that you can be, and I guess on a personal level as well, if you're on the PCDA, you get a degree to show as validation for all of your efforts which is a fantastic reward and achievement and on the Degree Holder Entry Program you also get a degree level qualification to show for all the hard work that you've put in as you learn to be a police officer.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – I think you're right, and working together to deliver this program, because it will be delivered by police officers, and by staff from ARU. From ARU, we have a vast number of people with different experiences, we have retired officers, we have officers who have left prior to retirement, who want to go down the education and teaching route, and we also have staff that deliver on that program who aren't police officers, that come from a different world, have different perspectives, and just help to provide a variety of inputs and different points of view, to help our officers learn their craft as police officers.

So, what are the entry routes on offer to candidates who would like to gain a degree or a qualification, and what qualifications do they need to join the programs?

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – Yes, so with Anglia Ruskin University there are two.

I'll start off with the DHEP which is the Degree Holder Entry Program because that's very straightforward, you need a degree. If you're already in possession of a degree, then you're eligible for that program, and fundamentally from ARUs point of view, that is our entry requirement. That can be a degree in absolutely anything. If you've got that undergrad level six award, then you meet that requirement.

The PCDA is a little bit more complicated, so, I'll go into a little bit more detail there. The PCDA is the Police Constable Degree Apprenticeship. Now, in order to be eligible for that program with Kent Police, you need to have 64 UCAS points, which is split across two A-levels or an equivalent qualification.

Now, there's various help online, you can go to the UCAS website, for example, and there is a tariff on there, so any qualifications that you know you have at A-level or similar you can go into that website and that will break down, how many UCAS points you're in possession of. There are things like diplomas, that also hold UCAS points so, it will be specific to the individual, but the baseline for that is 64 UCAS points. However, there are examples of people who might not have 64 UCAS points that are still eligible. So, if you have less than that, but you've also as part of your professional life been in the military, or perhaps a civilian police role, certain other public services, then that might be seen as an equivalent, that that will allow you to register onto that program, but at that point again it is going to be about the individual so, Kent Police's website, ARUs website will have further information about that, but if you're not sure then it's best to get in touch with us and ask the questions, so that could be via the Kent Police Recruitment Team or Anglia Ruskin University. We have a central email address, send us a query, we’ll be able to let you know where you stand in terms of those qualifications.

In terms of the PCDA there's a little bit more as well. Any apprenticeship that a student does in the UK, by the time they complete that, they need to have maths and English or equivalent, at grade 4 or grade C, depending on the moment in time in which you did that award.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – As we were talking about earlier, there are four routes into the police service, to join Kent Police. We're focusing on two here today, which reward officers with a qualification, externally recognised qualification underwritten by yourselves, as part of their training.

There are two other routes into the force, one of those is the Police Constable Entry Program, the PCEP program, and the other being the PPD, which is a professional policing degree entry, where officers go off, and find a university to provide that learning and training and then they come to the force with that qualification.

It's important to remember that no matter what entry route you join in, the police, the learning outcomes, the curriculum, your experience will generally be the same, and it has to be the same because at the end of the day we're training police officers, and it doesn't matter what program you join, the outcome is the same, you will be a police officer serving your community.

So, we do have other routes available for officers that perhaps might choose not to gain a qualification for whatever reason, so, more details about that can be found on our website.

In your experience of working with student officers, why do you think people choose the degree route or the route that provides a qualification, and what do you think the benefits are of that?

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – I think, the reward of getting a degree to show for your efforts is, a reward in itself, you know. The award that you get as a Bachelor of Science with Honours in Professional Policing Practice, and that is a fantastic sort of accreditation for all of the work that a student officer has put in as part of their police training and, the core skills that you need to be a police officer are of course the same regardless of which entry program that you join.

For the PCDA for example, they, there is an apprenticeship standard, that outlines the knowledge, skills and behaviours that you need in order to be a police officer, and in apprentice terminology, they are very specific terms, but they're actually very important to be taken literally as well. To be a police officer you need a certain set of knowledge skills and behaviours, that's always going to be consistent, but what the degree does is it provides you with those, and more. You get the academic skills that go alongside that, and just top that up to give you that degree that you can then use to, as a basis to progress with your career, in the police and maybe beyond as well.

If I was a an applicant who was looking to join the police and thinking ‘I'm going to do my 35 year career in the police force, well I'm 18 years of age now I'm still only going to be in my early 50s when I finish, and I would love to have a degree to show for that, to validate all of my work’ and the kind of reflective writing skills and research and analysis that you get to learn about and practice as part of your degree, they’re going to be incredibly important within your career as a police officer as well. That might be doing the job of an investigator, it might be preparing for an interview for promotion, the list is endless. It's only going to support you to improve and enhance your journey through life and through the police in general.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – I think having heard from officers that are starting to come to the end of their PCDA program, and of course the DHEP students that have finished, or student officers that finished almost a year ago now, some of their stories, some of their experiences, reinforce what you're saying.

The skills that the officers have gained through working towards qualification, their diploma or their degree, have helped them in their day-to-day policing. The transferable skills you talk about, the critical thinking, the analysis, the ability to problem solve, to know where to go to find data or find answers to questions, is evidence that the program works, and equally if we think about working together, your organisation, my organisation, the support that's available to officers is almost doubled, and the support I'm talking about is when dealing with life events, when we might need to provide support to our officers. We can provide that through Kent Police, but also as the officers are technically students, working with ARU, then they are also able to access the various different student support networks, and advice and support, which also includes learning difficulties and differences. The LDD side of their learning so, that's another important benefit I think that collaboration brings for us.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – I totally agree, and I think collaboration is a really important word there. You know, the ARU student officers are getting all of the support from Kent Police and us together, and LDD as you've mentioned there, it is not a barrier to success on our program, far from it. We will support all of our student officers regardless of their personal circumstances, and we have a whole host of additional support facilities available.

Whilst when you join Kent Police as an ARU student, quite rightly you have chosen a career as a police officer and that is going to be your priority, but you are an ARU student as well, and you have access to all of our facilities, all of our support services, and I think it's really important to stress that because, that could be anything from the library, to the sports facilities, to the counselling and wellbeing services that we have, it's all there for you, should you need it, and should you want to access it.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – So from what you were saying, I was also thinking about some of the other support that ARU offer during the officers taking part in their studies and training.

We have tutors, police tutors, but we also have ARU tutors assigned to each class, to teach, train, develop officers, and also, they are there as sounding boards, and our trainers and your trainers work together to understand those student officers and to really get the most out of them, and that, for these courses at least, doesn't stop at the end of basic training. That carries on beyond the 22 weeks of this program, into the second year, and indeed into the third year, so there's a consistent support, a friendly face, for want of a better term, that sees those officers through that entire program, over those three years.

So James, the programs that we collaborate on, and the other two potential entry routes into the force, are the same, so they're 22 weeks in duration, and what's different I suppose from previous training that's gone before to now, is that training doesn't end after 22 weeks, and you leave your, in this case Kent Police College, never to come back again. That training carries on, there's more curriculum, there's more learning, there's more experiences to be done.

So, we've mentioned that DHEP is two years in duration and PCDA is three years in duration. So, can you outline the support that may carry on beyond those 22 weeks into years two and three?

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – Yeah, so obviously that 22 weeks is really important, and really exciting, it's the start of their journey, and it and it's where our student officers learn all those core skills that are needed to get out there and do the job that they've identified that they want to do, but beyond that initial 22-week phase, I guess is the point at which the more traditional elements of the police training program start to develop into a degree or a level six qualification, and the way it kind of looks, it's broadly the same across the DHEP and the PCDA, whilst you're an Anglia Ruskin student officer 20% of your time is protected learning time to complete the work that's required to get the certificate at the end of your program.

Now what that looks like is, in year two of the DHEP and the PCDA and then year three of the PCDA, is that you will spend 80% of your time in the police environment doing the job of a police officer. The remaining 20% then you'll come back into the classroom environment, whether that's face-to-face or blended learning through an online platform, and you will receive some extra input from ARU and some extra assessment tasks that tie it all together, and you get to complete the modules that are required in order to get the degree, but it's important to note that your career as a police officer is integral to all of that. Every assignment that you do, throughout the rest of your journey, is about reflecting on the experiences that you've had as a police officer, and researching areas of police that you have a personal passion for, or perhaps that Kent Police have an active need for you to explore. It's a really interactive, rewarding program, in which your personal journey is central, and I think it's a fantastic, fantastic way to learn to be a police officer.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – And we continue to deliver that together, those second and third years, so, as well as continuing with ARU trainers and there'll be police trainers as well delivering, on that program, and it's important to recognise that we give time to both PCDA and DHEP officers, to undertake their learning, that supports their ability to deliver policing to the communities of Kent. So, you're going to have time set aside for your learning, like you say away from the day-to-day work, because realistically, policing is an all-encompassing career. It's busy, very busy, so where are you going to get the time to develop yourself, develop your learning, unless we provide you that. So, we will provide officers with the opportunity of ring fence protected time, to progress their learning, because otherwise we're not going to get the most out of them, and in return they're not going to become the best that they can be without that time.

James, you talked about research and in the third year of the PCDA program officers have an opportunity to research areas of policing, tell us more about that.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – Yeah, so each individual student officer as part of their PCDA program, gets to pick a topic, and practice all of those skills that they've learnt along the way into developing some research into that topic, and there are a whole host of options available to them, it could be something that they have a really particular keen personal interest in, in terms of their policing career, or it could be something that is strategically important to Kent Police at that time, and I understand Mark, that we've had some really good examples, that have already been presented to Kent Police.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – We have had a cohort of officers through now who have undertaken their research projects, and from the forces perspective this is very much a return on investment.

The projects that are coming through, and we've had areas or project areas on recruitment and retention, officer safety training, mental health, missing persons, but in particular with regard to risk assessments, around possible exploitation from gangs, a whole variety of different topics, and these have been researched well, thoroughly by the officers, and we are looking to put some of those projects forward to chief officers, senior officers, to inform future practice, to inform training for the next generation officers coming through, and to really help Kent Police deliver policing to the Kent communities, but what it’s also doing, is giving officers, a hunger for research, to go away and find answers to problems, to questions, and we're giving them the tools to do that, and it enables them to follow an area of policing that they enjoy, they find interesting, and really become subject matter experts in that area of policing.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – From ARUs point of view that's absolutely fantastic to hear, and those opportunities are only going to grow going forwards.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – Absolutely.

So, where does the training take place?

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – So, for the first 22 weeks of the training program it's going to be face-to-face at Kent Police College. Anglia Ruskin University and all of our team members are based at Kent, with the Kent instructors. As you progress through to years two and three, it can be blended. So, some of it might be face-to-face, which would again be in Maidstone at Kent Police College, but there is the ability to deliver online as well.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – Okay.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – and I think that's an important point actually, because sometimes when I speak to applicants who are considering their options, with joining the police and the PCDA is one of them, I think there's a little bit of a myth sometimes, that they're worried that they're going to have to somehow be a full-time police officer, and also be a degree student on top of that and somehow balance it all and you know they won't get any time to themselves, and it will be all consuming. It really isn't like that. It's a fully integrated program in which the training that you do to be a police officer, leads to the award of the degree at the end of your program. 20% of your time is protected to do the degree, and I think that's a really important message, because there is a concern I feel amongst some applicants that it might be too much, but you're fully supported along the way and it really is a collaborative, fully integrated training program.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – So, we've talked more broadly about the program, but perhaps we'll spend a bit of time now talking about some of the specifics, some of the modules that exist in for example years two and three. Can you tell us about those please?

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – So, by years two and three, our student officers are beginning to build up some experiences in in policing, they've been out there, they've been doing the job, and what happens in years two and three is they get to reflect on that, and build on it in the context of leadership and management, explore topics such as evidence-based policing, how to research in a little bit more detail, and also start to focus on certain specialisms that might be either important to them as an individual, or relevant to contemporary policing.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – and having delivered on this program, there's various modules that make up to years two and three so, the titles of some of those modules would be response policing and crime investigation, we've got introduction to vulnerability, community policing, leadership and coaching, and it's all designed to build upon the learning that takes place in year one, With the greatest respect to the officers learning this, their craft, they don't have much operational experience, if any, to hang it upon in the first year, but in years two and three, they've been out in the communities, they've been policing, they've been working nights, they've been working earlies, and now have, the experience to apply to their learning. So, years two and three enable us to take that learning, and start probing it, and deliver it in a different way, but also to hopefully strengthen their understanding, about key concepts in policing.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – and I think that last part is really important because I think they get the chance to just take a step back, and reflect on everything that they've done, and by doing that, they get to understand it, and learn a lot more from it.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – and they get to share their experiences with their colleagues, the stories that they have to share, things that went really well, and things that perhaps didn't go so well, and when we talk about qualifications, as we have, we've talked about degrees, we've talked about diplomas. Obviously, if you were to undertake a degree going straight to a university there'd be a cost involved, tuition fees for example, is there a cost involved to officers personally for these programs?

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – No, absolutely not. The decision to be a PCDA student officer or a DHEP student officer, is just like joining the police on any other training program. You join on day one, and you’re a police officer from day one. So, the programs are fully financed by Kent Police and Anglia Ruskin University, and it probably goes one step beyond, being able to say that the student officer doesn't have to pay for the degree, they are getting a salary as well.

It's work-based learning, and it's a fantastic opportunity for anyone, who is perhaps in two minds about where they want to go on their police and education journey, and you know them going to university might be one option, but this ties it all together so nicely, you know, it really is a fantastic opportunity to start your career and get that degree as a validation and an accreditation for all the hard work that any student officer has to put in when they join.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – You're right this is a work-based program, it's a vocational program, we're not looking at anything too abstract, in learning because it has to be focused on what we're looking for in terms of our end result, which is to be a police officer, and these programs provide knowledge and skills, attitudes and behaviours, to be able to do that job, and not just do it, but do it well, and I think we might just need to clarify the length of the programs.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – Yeah, of course the DHEP program is two years, and the PCDA is three years.

The core policing content is very, very similar within both programs. The assessment for the Degree Holder Entry Program is consistently at level six, whereas the PCDA builds through the academic levels of higher education. Year one is level four, year two level five, and year three level six.

So, the reason that the Degree Holder Entry Program is that bit shorter, is essentially a recognition of the fact that some of the academic skills, that are required to complete the PCDA, those individuals have already achieved by virtue of doing their degree earlier on in their journey.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – Sometimes people ask the question, is this a classroom-based learning program. Well yes, there'll be an element of working in the classroom, but there's different ways of doing that, and policing as we mentioned is a vocation, there's a lot of doing involved in this job so, part of the training will involve being outside, it will be immersed in roleplay, in simulation, certainly initially at training school, to provide as close as real life as we can, because policing operationally anyway, doesn't take place in a classroom, it takes place out in communities. So, we need to reflect that in our training, and that's the same, it carries on, in years two and three as well.

So, James from your experience of this program, what sort of feedback are you hearing from officers on it.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – I think the collaboration is really popular. The fact that this is a fully integrated program with ARU and Kent Police, when it comes to the learning and development that we're providing, the right people are delivering the right material, and our student officers get the best of both worlds. They really enjoy it when an experienced police officer is able to sit in a classroom with them and deliver the material in the context that they've been there and that they've done it themselves.

Our student officers really enjoy being able to see the Theft Act or the Police and Criminal Evidence Acts or burglaries, robberies etc. in a theoretical environment and then speak to someone that's actually been out there and applied it in practice, and start to paint that picture of what it might look like when they do the job themselves, but of course the next part of that is, that they then go out to do it as well, and once they've got those experiences, our student officers really enjoy coming back into the classroom and being able to reflect on that amongst their peers, share their experiences, learn together and really have that spirit of collaboration amongst their own classmates, but also with ARU and the police as a whole.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – Well we've spent some time with some of our current student officers, to get some feedback from them, and this is what they've got to say about the programs.

Student officer - I'm on the PCDA course, which is a degree apprenticeship. I'm absolutely loving it at the moment to be honest, because it's given me the opportunity to do a degree whilst doing my dream job pretty much so, it's been, it's just been amazing for me really.

The time here has flown by, but it just keeps getting better and better.

Student officers - I think we're fortunate as well ‘cause the relationship between Kent Police and ARU is quite positive and quite influential on each other, so, I think that sort of rubs off on us, so there's a lot of collaboration [absolutely] like with the staff with us and all around.

Student officers - We're both on the Degree Holder Entry Program and I'm loving it so far because the tutors bring their real-life experiences into the classroom, so we get kind of a perspective on what's going on outside.

We have real-life role plays as well, well not real life, they're scenario-based role plays, so they're really helpful as well just to get used to sort of the idea of what we'll be dealing with when we go out on the outside.

Student officer - I'm on the Degree Holder Entry Program and the classroom side of learning is extremely beneficial as a university student because it's not too much of a shock to the system going from a university-based classroom to a police-based classroom. There's more of a practical element in the policing area, but that is an interest of mine which I greatly enjoy.

Student officer - I'm on the DHEP program and one of my favourite parts about being with Kent Police and ARU is you get a multitude of trainers, so you always have someone with a wealth of experience and enthusiasm for the topic.

Student officer - I'm on the PCDA course and at first, I thought the content was overwhelming, but there's a variety of support that all fits our individual learning styles.

Student officer – So, I'm on the PCDA course, and my favourite thing about this course is that the staff here are so supportive, it really brings the class together and we feel like such a family here at KPC (Kent Police College).

Student officer - I'm on the PCDA course and my favourite part of the course is the practical role plays, where we get to put all of our skills together and work as a team.

Student officer - I'm on the PCDA course, and I think it's amazing how we work towards a degree while doing on job training.

Student officer - I'm doing the PCDA course and one thing I like is the fact that everyone in the class is very different ages, and we all get along very well considering we're all from different backgrounds.

Student officers - We're both part of the PCDA course, I'm really looking forward to get out on division, hearing stories from a lot of the staff and the teachers gets me really excited, and I'm excited to start learning on the job, I feel like that'll be beneficial for me to improve my learning.

Yes, as my colleague said, the fact that you can actually do both uni work and training to be a police officer really does help us and obviously everything that you do every day it just applies.

Student officer - It's been brilliant, the support from both the university and the police side, they work really well together. We have regular check-ins as well to make sure we're coping all right with like exams, studies, to get all the appropriate time we need and any extra help if we need it, yeah I can't fault it really.

Student officer - I'm on the Degree Holder Entry Program. I think the most exciting part has probably been the practical role plays ‘cause outside the classroom you actually get to apply what you've learned in the classroom to real-life situation, which is probably the best way when you actually go to frontline policing.

Student officer - I'm on the Degree Holder Entry Program. My favourite bit was the personal safety training ‘cause it was like we got to do like practical policing and how to put our knowledge into practice, which I think is going to be quite useful out on the street, and we got obviously a multitude of scenarios to run through and it was pretty good.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – That was good to hear from the students that are engaged in the learning program now, and to hear about their experiences, direct from them.

So, in terms of the last question, what advice would you give someone who's listening to this podcast now, who might be thinking of taking the next steps towards applying.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – I think the most important thing is to do your research and really prepare yourself with information so that you understand, what your options are, and what it is you're signing up to, and I think the majority of that, involves the decision as to whether or not you want to be a police officer.

I think which entry program might be right for you comes a step beyond that, so, initially you need to consider what does it mean to be a police officer and is that something that I want to do. There are various ways that you can find that out. Obviously, the internet is your friend in this situation, that could range from an open Google search, to looking specifically at Kent Police's website or Anglia Ruskin University's website.

There might be various open days that you can attend, either in the police or at the university, where you can turn up and you can actually speak to someone and ask directly what it is like, but, beyond that I think there is the entry requirements that are required, we've already touched upon those a little bit in this conversation, but if you feel like that there's a particular program that is right for you, you want to make sure that that you're eligible for that program, but you want to look at things like do you need a driving licence, what does the bleep test involve when I turn up to do my fitness test. These are all things that you can prepare for so that when it comes down to it there are no surprises.

You know there's going to be an element of shift work as you start your police journey, all of these things just get as much information as you can and try and speak to some people that have done the job that have been an ARU student, and really make sure that it is the right program for you, because it is a big commitment to be a police officer, but it's a fantastic reward, and you know if you're 18 and you're currently thinking well what are my options here, does my future involve going to university, or do I want to get straight on with my career, then the PCDA is a fantastic opportunity to do both.

Find out all about it, get as much information as you can. I think that's the biggest piece of advice I can give, it's all out there but you've got to do a little bit of work to get it, just learn about what it means and make sure that it's right for you.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – You're right, at the end of the day the outcomes the same by applying to join the police, you want to be a police officer, the entry routes just lead you to that point, so you need to understand, the role of a police officer, and what it's about.

The entry routes will just be how you get there but give it a go. If you're thinking about it, do it don't have a regret, reach out and find out more information and good luck.

James Emsden, Anglia Ruskin University – Good luck.

Acting sergeant Mark Allan – If you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to follow us on Instagram, X, Facebook and LinkedIn, where we'll be posting previews of our upcoming episodes. You can watch this episode on our YouTube channel and find out more about the variety of opportunities available by searching Kent Police careers. See you soon. [Music].