I can see the knives in his back pocket

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: I'm a transfer into Kent. To me personally, policing the county I live in, is really important, because you see the difference that you make to your home county, and that's something I'm really passionate around. We have so many different opportunities for people to transfer into, that it's something that people should explore.

There's always some incidents in your career which you will always remember. As I turn up, I see a gentleman walk across, and I can see the knives in his back pocket. The opportunities now to join the police are so different to when they were when I joined, that you can join in on the pathway to become a detective, and the diversity of roles, helps you understand where you know, where you fit within the police family, we are a slice of society.

When we go home you know we take our uniform off, and you're still that police officer underneath. When we attend calls, we leave a forever lasting impact on them to be the only time in their whole entire life that they've ever been dealt with by the police, and the impact that every member of the public I've dealt with, make me the person I am today, it's a fantastic job and I would never say not join policing.

PC Melissa Marsh: Welcome to More Than the Badge, a Kent Police podcast. My name is PC Melissa Marsh, and I will be your host today. Today's guest is Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard. Adam has been a police officer for more than 21 years and is currently working in the Economic Crime team. Welcome to the podcast Adam.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Thank you for having me.

PC Melissa Marsh: So, can you talk us through what you do and what inspired you to join the police.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Yeah of course. So currently I'm a detective sergeant on the Economic Crime team. So, that forms part of fraud, sort of SCD. So, my day-to-day business is reviewing crime reports, also managing my team, also supporting the force in the wider in regard to fraud investigations, and what made me be a police officer? So, this year it's my 21st year in policing, so I think back then, the policing has changed over the years, but I think what we look to achieve remains the same and culturally we change, everything changes, during the years. So, I made a decision when I was 20, you know I like to think about what I can bring to the community, which is probably the best way to put it, and there's nothing more than being sort of community focused and the impact that you can make on people than the police, because my thoughts around that is that we represent people within the county don't we? We are a slice of society, that makes up the police service.

PC Melissa Marsh: So, we've got you as a detective, what made you decide going into that role?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Well, yes so, I become a detective it would have been back I think it's around 2011/2012, so I spent a good proportion of my career first off in community policing and then within Local Policing Team (LPT) and you know my thoughts around LPT it's a specialism by itself, that's where you learn your trade craft of being a police officer. So it's very important you know the thinking on your feet, supporting the community being there and then at the incidents and then there's a reshuffle, I'm a transfer into Kent. So, there's a reshuffle in Essex Police, and I got placed onto CID and prior to that, I never wanted to become a detective if I’m honest, but I'm dyslexic, and actually I found that the way that my brain works, is actually very fine-tuned to sort of detecting crime and that detective pathway so yeah, I joined CID, become a detective there then I moved on to a domestic violence team and then on to from there onto POLIT so I did POLIT, so Police Online Investigation team and from there into SCD, into fraud. So, I've been lucky with my detective career really, because I've had a good selection of roles and they all bring their own unique challenges, each one of those.

PC Melissa Marsh: So, I know you've mentioned LPT a moment ago, where it's where you have to think on your feet when you're in the job. So, can you explain the difference between that and going into an investigative mindset, and how that basically broadens on all the information that you receive and how you look into it?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: So, when you think about sort the jobs that come to my team and the ones that we deal with, let's be honest right, probably 75% of those have already occurred and they've already been attended and then we're picking up the investigation. But, with LPT sort of, when you arrive at that scene there's always that threat risk and harm assessment you have to complete don't you? Sort of understand what's gone on there and then, and then look at what your priority inquiries are there and then, and they all differ every single time whereby when my team turn up to a scene it's around the evidential challenges and how we're going to look to detect and look for a positive disposal for that investigation and support the victims, but LPT it's at the forefront isn't it?

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: You know you turn up you've got victims, witnesses all there that want to speak to you immediately,

PC Melissa Marsh: yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and you don't always have that opportunity to step back. Whereby as a detective, the majority of the time we have the opportunity to step back assess what we've got, and then move forward from there.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah, I know, sometimes I've attended a job where I do have to think in the LPT mindset, but sometimes I step back from the job and go ‘ooh I wonder what's that, what that's led to and wonder what this has led to’, but it's quite interesting to see how you broaden it once you go into that investigative mindset.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Yeah, and it's because you'll turn up at a job won’t you, and you will have to be sort of looking at everything. You've got everyone that wants to speak to you there and then, you've got to consider every single evidential possibility there and then, what you're going to lose there and then if you don't deal with it, what you can get later on, and really put it in that priority, sort of you know where do you go from there. It's such an important skill to have because my personal opinion, so in my personal opinion, I think that helps you set your career for where you want to go from there on.

PC Melissa Marsh: So, Sergeant Stallard, you were originally from Essex Police.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Yeah, that's correct.

PC Melissa Marsh: How did that transition work?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: It was, it was easy to be honest. So, when you, to me personally, policing the county I live in is really important. So, I transferred in, and I was able to transfer straight into to actually, went to Cybercrime team under SCD. So, policing is policing again, isn't it? It doesn't matter what county you work in, we're there to support members of the public. So, the skill set that I already possessed was transferable into Kent. So, the transfer process was, I applied, had the same, I had an interview process, a test, effectively, and also a fitness test, but then joining Kent, yeah it was just so easy. So, knowing that that it gave me the ability to police where I lived in, it is so rewarding, because you see the difference that you make to your home county, and that's something I'm really passionate around.

PC Melissa Marsh: I think I can relate to, not being a transferee, but being a person living locally working within my community. I can see the changes that have been made and knowing that I'm working to make a difference, really, really is insightful.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Yeah, and I think the force itself, Kent, we have so many different opportunities for people to transfer into, that it's something that people should explore, and knowing that when you join Kent, that the way that we're set up as a force with the support that we provide all of our teams, it's a great place to police, personally, I wouldn't change the transfer for the world.

PC Melissa Marsh: I know you're a detective, but what does cybercrime entail?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: So, cybercrime is, it's funded nationally first off. So, cybercrime is a completely different, a completely different side of investigations. So, that is very much into how computers operate, what causes something else to occur, and you look at the use of telecommunications data and how we investigate crime. It's about understanding that to a more minute detail, and understand if you again if you do A it causes B to happen, and how that that affects an investigation and what you can get from digital devices, because when you look upon how we investigate crime, you know we all do it, when you sit down and you look upon your core doctrine of how you're going to investigate that you always have a digital strategy, because now we live in a digital world,

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: so that you, when you attend your calls you know that there will be someone there with a smartphone, there'll be someone there recording, and those information we can obtain that and the resources that we have in Kent Police and the internal departments like the Triple I team that are there to support online investigations and build up a digital, a digital evidence, can assist our investigations. So, again cybercrime is a completely different side of investigations. It's probably the place where I've done the most amount of police courses,

PC Melissa Marsh: Okay.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: I have to admit, and actually when I first joined I probably spent about the first three months away from home, just learning the difference between digital investigations, but then Cybercrime, the team itself, are out there to support teams. So, all of our SCD teams so Fraud and Cybercrime they're both out there, we do divisional support days so we come out to help people from, on you know from yourself from your teams and LPT, but also investigation teams and help understand, help them with their investigations what they can get digitally and what they can get around fraud investigations. Because we spoke earlier on didn't we around how teams, we are one big team,

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and it's important for us to come out and because if I needed an answer and I knew you knew it,

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: I'd give you a call, and it's important that we have that both ways, and so we are one big team in Kent, not just individual ones but Cybercrime it’s a great team, I got promoted from there and moved on onto fraud, but it was it was a very good learning curve for those digital investigations.

PC Melissa Marsh: I have to keep a look out to see when they're in.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Yeah, it’s a good team.

PC Melissa Marsh: How do you manage to switch off from that to help maintain the work life balance?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: I think as a police officer you know you very rarely switch off,

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and we're all different, and it's difficult to sort of make a decision around those but my personal opinion is that I think if you're emotionally aware of your own feelings and you gain support when you need it, and that can either be speaking to you know your colleagues or the internal, you know so you can go to Occupational Health and so on, it's about emotionally being aware of how you feel because when you are fine-tuned with your own emotions, I think you're in a better place to support your colleagues.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and being a supervisor that's something really important to me because I should be able to, you know look at my team and understand when they need some extra help.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yep.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: You know that 'let's go for a chat', and knowing that when there's been certain instances that you would have been to or and you think ‘I really need to talk about this to someone’, because it may well be your first you know sudden death, it may well be your first, road traffic collision and they're all things you might want to debrief with someone and just because it's not a big thing to that person, it's a big thing to that person they may well need some assistance during that time, but I think understanding what's available out there to you internally within Kent Police really does help you.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: So, I think again being emotionally aware of not just yourself but your teams is really important, and I think we've got so much better as a force around doing that, when you think about attending incidents and now that there can be flagged for TRIM process*, and that you will be proactively contacted to say ‘do you need some support?' and 'that we're here to support you’ I know that that is throughout sort of through to speaking to your peers and supervisors upwards there should always be there, you should always be a to ask for help.

PC Melissa Marsh: yeah

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and always be supported.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah, and I know you said Kent Police we've now evolved in terms of looking after our colleagues and their mental health, what kind of services have you recognised that they have brought out to support us as a force?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: So, in the last couple of years there's been an enhanced amount of training given to supervisors to know how to support your team. So, they they've run breakout sessions for where supervisors attend those sessions to talk about what support is there and then we can cascade that down, and just knowing that you can support your colleagues, and that you can make an occupational health referral or that you can self-refer to counselling as well, remember you don't always have to go through that route, but the force wants to support you. So, as long as we know that you know you need that support, we're here to help, but you can also self-refer for counselling which is which is great because I think having that opportunity to do both, it really does help you.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah of course, oh that's great perfect thank you. So, speaking again we've got emotional moments, but is there a moment in your career that's stuck with you, through the years?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: In the police, we've got a level of supervision haven't we, you know we’ve got sergeants, inspectors and so on, but I always think about when we go outside that door, the public look at us all as supervisors we all have expectations that we need to deliver to members of the public, and to me the things emotionally that I think I've helped the most in the last couple of years has been being there for your team, because I think helping them develop are things which I take great pleasure in, because sometimes you need people to assist you, you know that way to say ‘you know let's have a chat around this, what learning has come from this, how do we get to achieve you know a better outcome in the future for you know for members of the public?’ and when I look at those as a wider aspect I think supporting my teams throughout the year, throughout the years sorry, are things that stick with me the most, because you see people grow. So, you have people to come to you and I always talk about the detective pathway so and that starts at different points during your career you know that start from when people go to VIT, they can start from as soon as you go to your attachment to VIT you think you know I want to become detective and what does that look like, because actually investigating a domestic violence incident and investigating a like a, serious fraud incident, or a complex fraud incident, they require slightly different skill sets and developing people and fine tune people to detectives and helping them achieve is something that sticks with me personally.

PC Melissa Marsh: So, it must be quite rewarding to see someone go down a career path and knowing that they're on the right track and you've done something to step in and assist them achieve it in the best way possible.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Yeah, and I think we are so lucky in the police that you there is a wide variety of jobs out there for people and you do find one that works well for you and you think ‘you know I don't really like that’, you can obviously look to move elsewhere, it's not that you shoehorned, because I don’t think that that doesn't work because you don't get the most out of people at that point. But I think that development, development of officers and development of yourself as well is really important.

PC Melissa Marsh: So, we've spoken about that, we've spoken about the emotional support, other than that what other support is there in Kent Police and how does that work?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: So, I think the support within Kent Police, it's there that we can speak to our peers, I think to me that's where that again that starts because you then notice that there's that requirement to assist people, but it is linking in with our own internal you know Occupational Health, that you've got those support networks are within your teams, and that's where it's so important to me because if you know your staff, you know your colleagues that you're working with, you know when they need support, so you can help them during that that pathway.

PC Melissa Marsh: In my first few months of working, I could pick up that it's much like a family, every department is like a family, you spend so much time together that you get to read when a person's not okay as well, and it's quite nice to be there and be that supportive person like a family member but from a colleague perspective.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Every team is unique, that’s the best way to put it, so you will, the things that you will talk to about in your team are the things that my team won't talk about

PC Melissa Marsh: yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: because actually, you know we're not attending the front-line jobs like you. So, there wasn't that, you know what would you do with this situation, and so on, but having that team ethos, and I think that within Kent we are we are lucky, extremely lucky that I have, and my thoughts around every department is, that you should be able to go to any department and ask for some help. So, you know cos when you look at you know I look at the size of frauds across the force, and they sit in various departments across the force, and I would like every, every, team to feel that they can come to me and ask for help, because it is one, we are one big team

PC Melissa Marsh: yeah

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: we're not individual teams, there you know there is that police family that we should be there to support each other, because something that you may like find challenging, I might not find challenging. So, I can talk through how I've got through that and that can be emotionally or and also just around investigations, but you look at where we are again within the force around neurodiversity

PC Melissa Marsh: yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: I'm a dyslexia buddy, so people can contact me and say well right they want some help around certain parts that they find challenging, and I think having those support networks that are there to assist people.

PC Melissa Marsh: So, do you hear or face any misconceptions?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: I think there's probably many misconceptions around the police what we do, and where, how we get from point A to point B. We know, we are very if you look upon it, victim focused but sometimes we have to be suspect focused as well because obviously supporting victims, but we can only prevent crimes occurring sometimes by being suspect focused

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and, I think maybe some misconceptions within the police is that every department is separate, but they're really not because if I needed a some specialist assistance with an investigation, I'd be more than happy to pick the phone up and say ‘look, you know, ‘I need your help’ and I think maybe that's where the misconceptions are, is that we are singular teams, when we're not, we are one big team looking to achieve the same outcome.

PC Melissa Marsh: So, that kind of links back to my previous question and it's basically saying that everyone's got a puzzle piece to help solve the problem, it’s just coming together at the right time to fit that and solve it.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: 100 percent.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah, perfect, thank you. Has there been a moment where you realise the risks of what you do?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Yeah I think that policing holds its own risks, but I think we are well trained and equipped, to look to achieve the most appropriate outcome and when I look back up across my career and sort of there's one and you know we touched on it earlier on, there's always some incidents in your career which you always remember,

PC Melissa Marsh: yeah

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and it's like a photographic memory of what's gone on, and I think, and this is where again you know with yourself at LPT, on that front line of policing, it's so important to be giving you the skills and equipment to achieve what you want to achieve, and not only for your personal safety, but also for members of the public.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: So, when I look back when I was in uniform, I attended a domestic incident, I was single crewed and it's not unusual to be single crewed, and it was domestic incident whereby I requested to attend a disturbance at a block of flats, where an ex-partner turned up and was in possession of some knives outside.

So, I arrived at the scene by myself, knowing that there is a wider team around there to support me, but they’re at calls at the moment. Remember we have to look at the priority of calls don’t we, that's where it's so important in LPT so many different challenges at that point. So, I've arrived at the scene, single crewed in the car, it was dark, it was about 11 o’clock at night, report of a man outside the premises with some knives, as I turn up I see a gentleman walk across and I can see the knives in his back pocket, and you have to assess what, where the threat risk and harm lies on that one, I'm working on my own personal safety as we all are for every job we ever attend, but also the safety of the public and the person that’s called us, and we are there to be that frontline support aren't we and to support members of our community that need us in their time of need.

PC Melissa Marsh: Of course.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: So, I had to deal with that there and then and this was time before Tasers, so there's no Taser

PC Melissa Marsh: Oh

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: so, and this is where using the NDM** and our training comes in because you know our most important skill, we've got is our voice isn't it?

PC Melissa Marsh: Yes.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and talking to people and talking around the reason why we are why we're not doing something at a job, or talking people down or dealing with a situation. So, I've got out the vehicle, let him know that I'm a police officer that I'm there and create space between me and him, because needs to be space because he's got a weapon.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and he didn't have any in his hands at the time but they're in his back pocket. So I'm one side of the car he’s the other, so with those tactical comms of saying ‘this is what I want you to do, so okay the police we know, been called to this incident I can see you have knives in your back pocket, what I want you to do is to lay on your front, and put your arms out to the side’ and then handcuffed him. There's so many different things, and this is why I think certain things stay in your mind, and was that the most dangerous situation I've ever been in, no, is it the most unpredictable situation I've ever been in, probably.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Because I'm single crewed at night there's so many other impact factors that are affecting my decision making, but I've got to do the right thing,

PC Melissa Marsh: Of course.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: which is deal with what's in front of me, and sometimes that's what you face in policing don’t you and then you have to deal with what's in front of you and make those decisions there and then.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yes.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: So, he was compliant for me to handcuff him, but those knowing that he may well not have been compliant and then I would have had to use the other skills you know that we are given around our training,

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: but those tactical comms are important, because that could have escalated, and lucky it didn't. But knowing that I've got my team there, which is that there at other jobs, but I know if I press my emergency button that people would have come.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Because LPTs isn’t when you’re out there, it's not just LPTs, you've got the wider force and there's more other people that might not be a CID that's not the job that they're going to attend, but you can guarantee if you press your emergency button they're going to come.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yes, definitely and I think I've noticed that on a few jobs recently where some people have pressed the red button, you drop everything and you just go, but comms like you say is a very vital role, you never know what the person's going to do or what situation has led the person into reacting the way that they have, sometimes just having a conversation might help deescalate the situation.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Yes

PC Melissa Marsh: before just going in and a high heeding for the adrenaline just try and bring it back down.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Exactly that brilliant yeah 100 percent.

PC Melissa Marsh: Right, so we're going to go into the off the cuff section.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Right.

PC Melissa Marsh: It's something a bit different.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Yeah.

PC Melissa Marsh: and the first question to go is what is your go-to shift snack?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: So, I'm a chocolate and sweet person.

PC Melissa Marsh: [Laughing]

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: It's awful I'm sure my waistline you know will be affected from all of this, but yeah, I'm a chocolate sweet person, massive sweet tooth, so they're the things that generally I live off.

PC Melissa Marsh: Perfect, and if you were a superhero, what superpower would you be?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: That is a difficult one isn't it? To me it it'd be Superman

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and it's probably that ability to be able to achieve everything, that that his powers give.

PC Melissa Marsh: What's the one thing that you wish for the public to know about the role of a police officer?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: I think that the role of the police officer, I think I go back to that emotional side of it.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: We're all humans, and whereby you know we both know as a police officer you're generally never off duty.

PC Melissa Marsh: Correct.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: So, if something happens, we're there to deal with it.

PC Melissa Marsh: Correct.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and that when we go home, we you know we take our uniform off, and you're still that police officer underneath, but knowing that you are a human and the impact I always talk about the impact that we make on people. So, when we attend calls, we leave a forever lasting impact on them. It may be the only time in their whole entire life that they've ever been dealt with by the police, and if that's a bad impact, that's a negative side on this on how they feel about the police, and I think that's the same with police officers. This is coming up, this year it's my 21st year in policing, and the impact that every member of the public I've dealt with make me the person I am today.

PC Melissa Marsh: Of course.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Because they leave an impact on us, and I think that's important for people to understand that that we are all humans, you know we've got families, that we go home to, but knowing that the impact that they leave on us, I think it's very important to understand, like we leave an impact on them, they leave an impact on us.

PC Melissa Marsh: Absolutely. So, what advice would you give a person who's thinking of a career in policing?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: If I say, I think join, and I always say that, because if I didn't believe that I wouldn't be here now. So, policing is such, gives people such a diverse, and it just opens your mind around the community that we police, first off, but it also gives you the opportunity policing many different roles, and the diversity of roles helps you understand where you know where you fit within the police family, because actually it doesn't matter. We were talking earlier on around you know when you're pressing the emergency button that people will come, it won't just be your team

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: it will be everyone that can come within that that area to support you, during your time of need.

PC Melissa Marsh: Yeah.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: and that policing is that completely, that there is so many different roles within policing, that it's a fantastic job and I would never say not join policing, it's something that's, that I would do again.

PC Melissa Marsh: Perfect. So, if they were looking to join with that advice that you've provided, what would be the next steps for them to do, what would you suggest?

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: I mean prior to me joining the police, I had a customer service background, and I think it's very important as we go back to sort of the LPT side again understanding how to speak to people, and I think you build that experience up before joining the police but you also have to look upon that the opportunities now to join the police are so different to when they were when I joined, that you can join in on the pathway to become a detective first off, or you can join on the pathway, and it doesn't matter what pathway you join, let's be honest, because if you join one pathway and you don't like it, you can revert back, and if being a detective isn't for you, it it's fine because there's many more jobs within the police, but I think leading up to that is to understand that we are a cross-section of society and we are the ones that represent, you know Kent in in the way that our values mirror the forces values, and just having that experience and being able to speak to people I think that's so important, so important in policing.

PC Melissa Marsh: I agree with you, absolutely vital to be able to speak to someone otherwise why would you why would you be a human? Humans talk.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: Exactly that.

PC Melissa Marsh: I really appreciate all the information you've provided and I'm pretty sure there's going to be a few people that will be looking into a career with Kent Police.

Detective Sergeant Adam Stallard: No, thank you for having me Mel, I really do appreciate it.

PC Melissa Marsh: Thank you for listening, if you've enjoyed this episode, follow us on Instagram, X, Facebook and LinkedIn where we'll be posting previews of our upcoming episodes. You can watch this episode by subscribing to our YouTube channel and find out more about the variety of career opportunities available by searching Kent Police careers. See you soon.

* TRIM – Trauma Risk Incident Management is a process put in place to support officers and staff affected by a potentially traumatic incident at work.

** NDM – The National Decision Model (NDM) is a decision-making model used throughout the police service. It is designed to help operational officers, planners, advisers and commanders to manage their response to a situation in a reasonable and proportionate way.