It's really not the same job, because I've had so many roles within it

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl - I think I'm, really lucky, that after this long in the same job, it's really not the same job because I've had so many different roles within it.

It's not as simple as the uniform side and the crime group side, you know you've got covert sides, you've got Crash Investigation Units, you've got Intelligence Units, you've got the opportunity that when you work hard to have that recognised and go through promotion boards.

When you've got a really good team, work, no matter what the pressures are, can still be really enjoyable, get an awful lot of professional pride, especially when I watch some of my teams, and some of the great results they have.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews - It's just been really inspiring to hear you, you know talk about the realities of being a police officer.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl - From a woman, that was a single parent, was trying to work earlies, lates, nights, it was difficult, but, it is really supportive, there is room for everybody.

I think the most scared I've ever been, he just looked me dead in the eye and he said, “take one step towards me, and I will just break your nose” and so it was at that point when I then called, for backup. [Music].

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews - Welcome to More Than the Badge, a Kent Police podcast. My name is Samantha Matthews, I'm the Child Centered Policing Manager for Kent Police, and I'll be your host today. Today's guest is Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl. Stefanie has worked for Kent Police for 28 years.

Welcome to the podcast Stefanie.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl - Thank you very much.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – So, the question we must ask to start things off, what inspired you to become a police officer?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Well, I come from a family of police officers. I would say. My dad was a police officer, my stepmother's a police officer, retired now both of them, had two uncles that were police officers so, I think for me it was just something, I just remember being a kid, and my dad was a police officer and I remember thinking that was like really cool. Like telling all my friends at school that my dad, was a police officer so, I think when it got to the time when I was leaving school I wasn't interested in university, I'd done my A-levels and it was a bit like ‘what career path am I gonna go down?’ and I think from talking to, from my dad and from my stepmother ‘cause my dad was the uniform side, and then my stepmother was the, Child Protection side, it gave quite a good overview of what the police could offer. I think also because there's you know promotion opportunities and, you know just the fact that, you're interacting with the public and I quite like to talk, so [clearing throat] for me, I think it was just a sort of natural progression really, ‘cause I'd grown up with it.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – I mean it is really important I think for us to see female role models within the police as well so, just going back to the start of your policing career, up to now. So, how does your time in local policing compare to your detective work?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Do you know what, when I, when I joined, it was reasonably rare to have women in the force. I'm also very small, I'm five foot one if I stand really straight, and I was only 19 so, I think when I joined, it was, it was a little bit overwhelming ‘cause I was the only woman, in a class of men, but do you know what, I can honestly say I never really noticed that I was a woman, [laughing] because you get, you get embraced into the fold, you very much look after each other and I think, [coughing] excuse me, especially when I was on patrol, with all the male officers, you know, different ages etc. I always found them to be really quite protective, until they realised I was quite feisty and could, generally look after myself. So, I think certainly you know local policing, uniform, you really do look after each other, you're responsible for each other, and I really, really felt that.

Then I think moving into the into the detective world, again I kind of, I never noticed any difference, I've always been treated exactly the same, as my male colleagues, if I'm honest, and I think my whole career, I've never felt generally as a generalisation through my career, nothing but supported, no matter whether it's in a uniform role, or a crime investigation role.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Almost sounds like a family.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Yeah, no I definitely think so, you know, if I think, I would, I always say like to my teams now, we spend a lot of time at work, and we do spend a lot of time at work. So, you've got to try and make the best of it and enjoy it as much as you can, and I think when you've got a really good team, work no matter what the pressures are, can still be really enjoyable, get an awful lot of professional pride, especially when I watch some of my teams and some of the great results they have, and yeah you do, you do look after each other and I think I think that's an important way to be when you're, you know you're working earlies, lates, nights, sometimes 14 hour days, longer sometimes. Yeah, we look after each other.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – So how has your career evolved over time?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Well, as I said I've been in, I've been in the organisation a long time, it's the only career I've known to be honest. So, yeah I joined local policing, I actually really enjoyed that, I had a bit of a tough start because when I was within my probation, so within the two years, I was diagnosed with epilepsy, and that was, a really hard time for me because of course I lost my driving licence for a year, but, what I would say I was really lucky, the superintendent at the time, was just awesome, at a time when maybe disabilities weren't recognised as much as they are now. He was just excellent, and I think I've got his support to thank for the fact that here I am now 27 years later, so yeah that was a little bump in the road with my probation, but then I moved into, well we called it Tac Team, which is where, you normally see the chaps in the vans, basically like knocking down doors etc. I really enjoyed that, that was good to go and do different operations and things like that, and then I went, it must be about five years in four, five years in by now, and I remember I got sent to an incident, and a lady headbutted me, to the point my teeth went through my bottom lip, and I just remember thinking ‘oh do you know what, I think it's time for a change’ [laughing] and that was how I sort of thought and I've always actually, I'm one of these weird people that loved paperwork, love a bit of paperwork I can't deny it.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Hot Fuzz fan?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Yes! Yeah [laughing] so I don't mind it paperwork, so I then went into the Crime Group, I found that I really enjoyed it, I realised I was excellent at time management and case file completion, so that's how I became a detective.

I think my promotion has been really organic, I've never been ambitious, at all, so when I joined the organisation, I never thought I want to get promoted, so I think for me it was just I got to the point as a detective where I thought you know what, I think, I think I could do the next rank now. So, that's when I got promoted and I got posted up to North Kent ‘cause I wanted to, I wanted the quicker pace of life and like that you know the proximity to London, gave me that, and then I fell pregnant what was I, 36, when I had my son and so at that point I went part-time ‘cause I thought that was my career, I thought I'm going to be a part-time mum, sorry a part-time officer, look after my son, and then I had a lot of miscarriages, which hugely, affected me and then my husband left, and so I was then left as a part-time sergeant with a two-year-old child, and I was a bit like ‘erm crikey’, and I think at that point I could either have, given up and accepted, what was happening to me, and instead I thought ‘right, I'm going to focus on my son, focus on work’, ‘cause the two things are what gave me, joy in different ways, they gave me joy and made me feel like a person again. So, yeah I got my, I got my inspector's exam, I went on to get promoted, which was, which was great, and I felt really, really, that's probably the best I felt in my career, that ability to get over, really horrific things in my personal life, to then, get promoted and be able to provide a really stable life for my son, and I think maybe because I stayed a sergeant at such a long time within the Crime Group, when I took the step up to being an inspector, I found it fine, I could manage it, I was like ‘okay, this is what I was doing anyway, just on a bigger level, I can manage this’.

So I didn't stay an inspector for very long ‘cause I thought, ‘right I think I'm ready for the chief inspector role now’ and I'll be honest with that, that was a difference. That took me a good six months of thinking ‘oh my goodness, it's much bigger, it's much more accountability’, and I think it's a good thing to be honest and say, you don't walk into a job straight away and know what you're doing, and I didn't. It took me six months to work out exactly the expectations and, now I love it again, and I think I'm, really lucky, that after this long in the same job, it's really not the same job because I've had so many different roles within it. I still love my job, you know technically I should be able to retire in two, three years’ time but they're not going to get rid of me I'm staying little bit longer.

So, yeah I just feel really lucky to be in this position.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – That leads me on really nicely actually to the next question ‘cause I think, it's you know fair to say in policing, as a career you know it naturally presents officers with stressful situations, quite a lot of tension.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Yeah.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – So, in terms of you know well-being, how do you manage the more emotional parts of your job?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Well, [coughing] I'm going to be honest with that one, I sometimes struggle, with the emotional part. I've especially noticed I think, since becoming a mum, the emotional side, I can, I can sometimes absorb, maybe more than I would, than I would choose to, but on the other hand I think, if I can't show empathy, if I can't show that emotion, to you know, to the people that I’m dealing with, that would just make me a robot so, you know, there's a couple of times that really stick in my head and, generally it's around death, and it's because you associate maybe the person that's died with one of your own family members, the age, whatever it might be, and yeah, I might tear up, and do you know what, I think that's okay, because for me, this might be my, job that I'm going out to, but this is somebody’s life, you know after I leave, it's going to impact upon them, for an awful long time, and there are those that stick with me and, do you know what, I think that's okay.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – No, actually I completely agree, I think it's actually really powerful, and important to show that we're human.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Yeah, very much.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – And we’re relatable. Yeah, I couldn't agree more, and you mentioned that some things are stuck with you so, actually in terms of any kind of standout moments in your career, is there any one moment that's particularly stuck with you?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – There's a there's a few to be honest. I think if I can touch on the two, ‘cause they're quite a big difference, ‘cause the first one, I'm talking 27 years ago.

So literally, in the first two weeks of my service, so before I even was allowed to wear a uniform [laughing], it's just when you go out with the proper police officers, just to understand what it's like, and there was a sudden death of a baby, and that shook me. You know I was 19, I'd never seen, a home in that level of disarray, but the palpable, like grief of those parents, just absolutely stuck with me, and seeing this baby, even now I can feel it, was just horrific, and to this day, I dread anything around, a child being hurt because it just, it really impacts upon me so, that is, definitely one that did affect me. It did stick with me, but I think it also taught me, that I don't really care if you live in a million pound mansion, or in a bedsit, the love that I saw from parents to a child, that doesn't have a financial equation and I think that was a really important lesson, for me to learn to who comes from a bit of a, mixed background, because I've got separated parents, so that was a powerful lesson I would say, for me as a teenager, to learn that, and then I think [coughing] the other one that's really stuck with me, is only a few years ago now, when I was a detective inspector, and it was a suicide, and the reason, it stuck, it really struck me, was because the man who is like your perfectly normal, working class, everyday husband, father, he had new shoes on so, he'd put his brand new shoes on, a really nice outfit, he had a rucksack with literally all his goodbye letters, all his bank accounts, all the passwords, all of those things, and I just remember that moment, just looking at him, just, that absolute sadness. So, when I went to see obviously his wife and children, and you know maintained a good relationship with them for a long time after, you just see that ripple effect.

So, I never take for granted, that this is, this might be my job, but it always brings it home to me when you're talking to those families, that I've got a responsibility, just to do my very best, to be empathetic, to listen to them, to try and, not share their grief, but just to maybe make it a little bit, easier, for them. So, I say there's lots of moments, but that stand out, but those two, I think are the ones that haunt me, the most, if I'm honest.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Yeah, it sounds like that's, that shaped you in terms of how you've gone forward in your career, not just as an officer but as a manager.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Yeah, I think so. I think, for me, people are always the most important thing. I think, no matter what, if you, treat people with some respect, and with some kindness, don't get me wrong you're not always going to agree and that's absolutely fine, but, if we just, show that respect to people it, and say whether that's the public, whether it's my officers, I just think that's what, I'm here to do, I'm here to be an example to my team.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Yeah, I think what's come across quite strongly for me there as well is, exactly that it's teamwork and that that plays a vital part, in successful police work, I think. So, would you say to that end, that camaraderie is actually a really important part to play and what do you think that's like in Kent Police?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Strong camaraderie to me is when you're a team. So, you lean on each other, as in you know, last week you might have had a really horrific week, so then week after, you know you want other people to step up and share the load. So, I would say, in my career, I say especially on local police in uniform, camaraderie is really strong. It is a, it's a really strong, enjoyable place to work, as a whole taking out some of the incidents that are dealt with, but you know they have strong team ethos.

From the departments that I've been through, which you know I worked as the, a sergeant, and an inspector in the Vulnerability Department. Again, I found, the ethos, the culture, the support within there, was always really, really good when I was the DI down, at Detective Inspector at Thanet, the team, the VIT (Vulnerability Investigation Team) down there were amazing, just watching them all pull together ‘cause they knew what my expectations were, and now that I have more teams, bigger teams, as the as the detective chief inspector, nothing makes me prouder, than when I hear like, really good work of what the officers have done, you know, going above and beyond, sometimes working all the way through the night, to make sure that they can get you know, that the person dealt with and charged. I love it when, like at an awards ceremony last night, there was a few letters from the members of the public, just saying what a great job some of my officers have done, and that's not me, that's my officers that have done that, you know, and it just makes me really, really proud of them, really proud of them.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – but you do set the tone, and it sounds like it's that balance of, support and professional challenge as well that, that drives them.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Yeah, no 100%, I you know I understand that I'm there to lead the team very much and I celebrate their successes, and I want them to know, you know, when things are done really well, but, I think I've probably got enough respect from my team that I'm also able to say ‘hang on, I need a little bit more, in this area’ and do you know what, I think because I've always put people first, what my team give me, honestly it's excellent, I really couldn't ask for more, and I think, for my view as a, as a leader, a supervisor in Kent Police, that is generally the culture I try, and I try and harvest because it works for everybody.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Yeah, no fantastic. So, policing as such a visible part of society, you know we're offering in the public eye, we're in the news, do you ever face, or do you ever hear of any misconceptions about police that you would want to challenge, and how do you manage those?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – All the time, literally all the time, like when I, obviously when I, when I joined back in 1996, as a mere teenager, I would tell everybody I was a police officer. I was really, really proud, and then I think as we've gone through some really difficult times in policing, really challenging times, and I would sometimes, not want to say what my job was, because you have that step back, you have that reaction, and whereas now, I think no, do you know what, we do a really good job, we do have challenging circumstances, we do quite often have unfair media, because what the public hear are all those, negative stories in the press, because they're the ones that are, that are interesting, aren't they're the one that generate gossip. You don't hear about the officers that are literally, you know, working 16 hour days, working absolutely tirelessly, to do their very best, to try and get the best results, and I appreciate that sometimes doesn't happen, and you know, often we get frustrated with that too, you know, we want to do the right thing, so, I think it's that misconception, that we're all, a little bit like that and we, you know, none of us really care, and that is so far, so far from the truth, and I think it's this, this misconception that I'm, constantly on duty, constantly looking for wrongdoing, and I'm like, I am just a person, I'm a person, I'm a mum, I'm a girlfriend, yes I'm a police officer, but I am just a person.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – We spoke about wellbeing earlier, and how you managed stress within the job. Would you feel comfortable sharing with us what has been your scariest moment, or a moment where you've realised the reality of the risks sometimes associated with policing.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – So, my latter part of my career which has obviously been, as it, in the crime side, I have a layer of protection from my uniform colleagues and I, you know I never, take that for granted because I've got some good friends that are still frontline, but there was I think the most, scared I've ever been, was when I was doing acting sergeant on local policing, and we were called to a domestic incident, and when we got there, the female was quite badly beaten, and the offender was just sat in the kitchen, on a chair, with his feet up. So really, really casual, really, really calm, and I'm normally quite good at talking out of situations, so I was going through this spiel of like ‘you know come on, this isn't the first, this isn't the first time you've been here, you're going to have to come with me’ and he just looked me dead in the eye and he said, “take one step towards me, and I will just break your nose”, and I just thought ‘hmmm will he, or won't he’, I thought ‘no, I will test this’ so I took another step forward and he went “yep, that's it almost close enough” and there was just that look in the eye, he wasn't aggressive, he was so cold, that I just thought, I know he will, and so it was at that point, when I then called for backup, to get more resources there, because I knew, I knew [laughing] he was going to assault me so, that is probably, the scariest time because it was so non-aggressive, so calculated, that I thought ‘I won't win here’.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – It was almost opposite to what you are expecting.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – 100%, I can deal with aggression. Aggression, I know how to deal with that, but that kind of, trying to work out am I safe, am I not, and I was like ‘you know what, I'm not I'm not safe here’. So, yeah, I had to, I had to call for some colleagues, to come and, help me, and do you know what, there's nothing wrong with that either ‘cause at the end of the day we all want to go home to our families.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Exactly there. Absolutely right thing to do, and you know that's just a little part of the bravery, I think that police officers like yourself have to, you know inhabit and yeah you know we're grateful that you do so.

So, let's move away from some of the serious questions just for a moment, we're going to go a bit off the cuff, and ask you some quick-fire questions about you as Stefanie, the person.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Oh crikey!

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – So something a bit different there. So, question one, what is your go-to snack whilst on shift?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – I'm a protein bar girl, or a Monster Energy, Zero, of course.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Okay.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – but yeah, I know, I know that they're not the best, but I can't help myself.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – [Laughing], that's fine. If you were a superhero, what would your superpower be?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – You see I sometimes change my mind about this, but I really think I'd just like to be able to fly.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Yeah.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Yeah, I just, when I was a kid like, Wonder Woman was always like quite awesome, and I think, yeah, I just want to be able to fly.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Is she a bit of a role model for you?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Oh 100%. Honestly, I thought she was amazing. I remember I used to dance around the living room with like a pretend crown on my head, saying ‘Wonder Woman’.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Why do you have to stop doing that now?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Who said I did? [laughing].

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Well, that makes sense. So, if you could choose any celebrity to join you on a shift, who would it be?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Oh it's Kylie, always Kylie.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Kylie Minogue? I feel like I should make some sort of really bad pun about how you should be so lucky.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Oh well I would be lucky, lucky, lucky [laughing].

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – So why Kylie?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – I, do you know what, I think she was the era of my growing up. It was Neighbours in their heyday, like Scott and Charlene,[laughing] and then she moved on and like, started doing her little quirky records, and I think, I'm pretty sure ‘I should be so lucky’ was the second, single I bought, back when they were, what were they even called, vinyl. Crikey! showing my age, and I think ever since there, I just, I just really like her, and she's a little person as well, so I was like ‘oh she's the same height as me so I could actually have an eye to eye conversation for probably the first time in my life’ and yeah I went to see in concert, and yeah, here I am at 47 and I still think she's great, so.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Fantastic! and the last one for the off-the-cuff section. So, what's one thing that you wish the public really knew about the role of a police officer?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – I wish they knew, how much we actually care, and how much, we do want to help them, and in the absolute main, we really, really try, and I know we don't always get it right, but that isn't through want of trying. So, I think, I would want them to know, how proud I am to be a police officer, that I always want to do my best, and I would say 99.9% of the officers that I've come across, are like that. So, I think I wish they could see the really strong, work ethos, the absolute tenacity to still answer their calls, to still get there, so yeah, I think that's what I wish, I wish they could see that.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Brilliant. We are on to our last question, I have to say actually just listening to you, I think your honesty is really refreshing.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Ah, thank you.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – and I do think that you know one of the greatest benefits of working, in the police is the variety of life experience, the variety of people and communities, that you get to know, kind of the good, the bad, the everything in between.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – 100%.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – You know, it clearly helps develop you as a rounded human being who just cares about people, we still, we are just humans who care about other humans at the end of the day. So, to that end, the other question we absolutely have to ask before you leave, is what advice would you give to someone who is thinking about a career in policing?

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Yeah, I think, thinking about a career in policing, I would say, don't look narrow, as in like you know people think of the police as the people in the uniform that turn up to car accidents, or you know to a robbery or something like that, and yes, to me that is an absolutely integral part of being able to like just converse and think on your feet and, be able to react to different situations, but I would say, if you've got good people skills, it's a great career. You know because, you yes you go in at that kind of level and obviously we have the IF (Investigate First) candidates now, which is the crime group side, but it, there is just a wealth of roles that you could do. You know, it's not as simple as the uniform side, and the crime group side, you know you've got covert sides, you've got Crash Investigation Units, you've got Intelligence Units. You've got the opportunity that when you work hard to have that recognised and go through promotion boards so, for me in my career, I've had times when I haven't been happy, you know, and I think that, I think that's normal, there's times when you haven't been happy, but the brilliant thing is, is you can move, you know you can get a role that you love and, then, then you find your niche, or something that you're really, really excellent at, and I think that, that is what I would say, it's a really big spectrum out there. There are probably roles in the police you didn't even know existed, that might be, right up your street, and I think, also probably getting to this age now, is and this is probably more female orientated, is don't let the fact that you've got kids, make you think you can't do it, and the reason I say that is from a woman, that was a single parent, was trying to work earlies, lates, nights, it was difficult, it was difficult but, when you get it right with the balance with the organisation, it is really supportive, there is room for everybody, and so I just, I think sometimes when I've spoken to some of my officers that are like ‘oh, I can't get promoted because I've got kids’ and I'm like ‘no, they're not a preclusion to any of that’. So yeah, I just wanted to give a little bit of a shout out to the mums! [Laughing].

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Perfect, well that just leaves me to say, thank you Stefanie for your time and reflection today, it's just been really inspiring to hear you, you know talk about the realities of being a police officer, your journey into becoming a detective. It's, you know become really clear that you feel passionately, there are many routes into policing, and many career paths.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Yep

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Once you're into policing, we just really appreciate you highlighting that because it's so true.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Oh thank you.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – Thank you.

Detective Chief Inspector Stefanie Earl – Thank you very much.

Child Centred Policing Manager, Samantha Matthews – So, thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, follow us on Instagram, X, Facebook and LinkedIn, where we'll be posting previews of our upcoming episodes, and don't forget you can watch this episode by subscribing to our YouTube channel and find out more about the variety of career opportunities available by searching ‘Kent Police careers’. See you soon, bye. [Music].