What started off with 5 defendants, grew to 13

Detective Constable Emily Hooper - A group of individuals from Essex had travelled down, in order to rob a cannabis factory which was just in a residential property. Very quickly, that situation became quite heightened.

He had made a call, a 999 call, so it was all recorded and could be heard and actually the murder was on that call. It grew and it grew, what started off with 5  defendants grew to 13 defendants. You know in major crime that when jobs come in your home life has to take second place really because, there are long nights, early starts and it's full on for particularly that period when you have people in custody.

I'm really well supported in that role, in working part-time and I'm able to manage and sort of juggle both aspects of my life really.

I knew that I wanted to be able to come back to the police because it's a career that I'm really passionate about but knew that I wanted to have that balance with being around for my children.

If I want to be involved in those big jobs, if I want to be involved as a case officer then I have to be able to be flexible. Having spent 17 weeks away from home, so I managed to have the whole of the summer holidays off with my children, which was amazing, there is that flexibility both ways. [Music].

Inspector Ashley Price - Welcome to More Than the badge, a Kent Police podcast. My name is inspector Ashley Price and I'll be your host today. Today's guest is Detective Constable Emily Hooper. Emily works in Major Crime and has been awarded Police Officer of the Year at the annual Chiefs Award. Well done Emily and welcome to the podcast.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper - Thank you and thank you for having me.

Inspector Ashley Price - Let's start with a massive congratulations on your recent award.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper - Thank you.

Inspector Ashley Price - Tell me more about it.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – So, I found out I was nominated, I think earlier this year, and then I think the ceremony was in May so I went along with my husband and there were lots of categories and two other people in my category, and it was, a sort of an evening function which was really lovely, so my husband got to see kind of what I had been doing for the last two years [laughing] and of course what other people within the police do, so it was it was a really lovely evening.

Inspector Ashley Price - So what was the case you won the award for?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Operation Sheldrake, which was an investigation into the murder of Xhovan Pepaj on the 4th of December 2021, in Tunbridge Wells. A group of individuals from Essex had travelled down to Tunbridge Wells, in order to rob a cannabis factory which was just in a residential property on an ordinary street in Tunbridge Wells. So, they had come down in convoy, broken into the property, and in the course of breaking into the property they had alerted Xhovan Pepaj who was within the property that they were there. He'd called other people who were obviously involved in that cannabis factory, who had attended the scene as well. So very quickly that situation became quite heightened. When the others arrived, who were an Albanian gang, they arrived to the property, three of the individuals from Essex had locked themselves upstairs with the cannabis grow and with the victim. During that period there was an exchange between them which, one of the defendants from Essex, he had made a call, a 999 call, so it was all recorded and could be heard and actually the murder was on that call. So, Mr Pepaj lost his life, and that was recorded and that was obviously evidence that was played within court, which was difficult for people to hear. When I came on duty, that happened over a weekend when I was off duty, and when I came on duty on the Monday morning, I was asked to be case officer for that job and at that time, we had five individuals in custody who were linked to that offence.

I love being a case officer, I love taking cases to court so that, I jumped at the opportunity really, I was really excited to be involved in that. I think I very quickly knew that it would, you know in Major Crime that when jobs come in, your home life has to take second place really because, there were long nights, early starts and it's full on for particularly that period when you have people in custody, but as case officer that role kind of continues because you have deadlines to serve evidence so, it grew and it grew and what started off with 5  defendants grew to 13 defendants. The investigation including the trial because there were two trials it was split into two. Originally it was to be heard at Maidstone Crown Court, but they couldn't accommodate that number of defendants so, we had to split the trial between Loughborough and Brighton. So, in January 2023, I had a ten-week period, where I was at Loughborough Crown Court so, I would leave on a Sunday night and get home on a Friday night so, only really have very short periods at home over a ten week period, and then the same in the summer for Brighton, so I was there for seven weeks so I think it was 17 weeks in total that year that I was, away from home so my husband had to do the majority of the childcare so it was difficult for him, really difficult and difficult for me to be away as well.

Inspector Ashley Price - I can imagine and as a result, how many convictions did you manage to secure?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – So, over the two trials, all of the defendants were found guilty of conspiracy to rob. Three defendants were found guilty of murder, so the three defendants that were locked upstairs with the victim, and then there were two others who were convicted of manslaughter so, really good result, I think we got over 150 years of sentences with them all combined so, a good result for Kent Police and a good result for Xhovan’s family.

I think quite often, you know the concept, what people think about victims, obviously our victim was involved in the drug world, was involved in growing cannabis, but ultimately, he'd lost his life, and he had a family, he was a son, he was a brother, a nephew. So, no one deserves to lose their lives whatever their life choices are, so I think, it's about, understanding that we will do a good job whatever people have done that doesn't matter, you know we have to serve the public and we will, and seek justice for those, you know that are victims of crime.

Inspector Ashley Price - Wow and well done to you and your team for doing that.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah, it was a, it was a good team, a good team.

Inspector Ashley Price – So, what inspired you to become a police officer?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – I made the decision to join the police, while I was still finishing my degree at university. I'd always been interested in the police, definitely I kind of have a real drive to help other people and I think that's probably what motivated me the most. I haven't got any police in the family, so it was totally new to me, nothing that I'd ever sort of anybody that I'd really had much contact with that had been in the police, so yeah definitely new for me and my family.

Inspector Ashley Price – Did you find it difficult because I don't have any family, police officers in my family,

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah.

Inspector Ashley Price – So I found it very unique that some of my family were ‘really?’ did you feel the same?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah, I think I did, and I think probably, as I've gone through the police through the years as well, difficult finding, they're obviously very interested in what I do [laughing] and have loads of questions for me, especially off the back of court cases, and it's difficult to understand I suppose that interest because it's something that we do every day, but genuinely I think people who don't have an involvement in the police, they are really interested in what we do and how it works, what we deal with, particularly with all the programmes and things like that there are out there now, you know people's interest is high.

Inspector Ashley Price – and also probably people think we can do weird and wonderful things [laughing] but actually that’s only television isn't it.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah, yeah very different to TV – absolutely.

Inspector Ashley Price – and what made you become a detective because, officers can make a decision, if they want to stay in a uniform role or a detective role. What made you go through a detective route?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – I joined in 2007, and I spent two years in uniform and with my patrol team, who were an amazing team, I was really lucky with the officers that I joined with, they were really supportive, very hardworking, so I had a really good exposure to uniform life, but I think I knew quite early on that I was interested in investigation, in court, in going to court, taking cases to court so, I very early on within that two year period, asked for an attachment to what was Child Protection then and I had, I think a week or two weeks attachment to Child Protection and then knew that that was really the kind of pathway for me and it went from there.

Inspector Ashley Price – and it's quite good isn't it, because within this job we can ask for these attachments and see if we like those particular roles and, that's obviously paid off with yourself doing an attachment on the detective route.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah absolutely. Yeah, I was really lucky because there was quite a lot going on, during my attachments I had a real exposure to what Child Protection was like. Sometimes the attachments, we have a lot of people have attachments in the Major Crime Team which is where I'm based now, and it really is dependent on what comes in because we're quite reactive in there so, some people get a really good exposure but if they have an attachment and nothing much does happen it's definitely worth if operationally they're able to, to come back again at some point and keep that interest up.

Inspector Ashley Price – So no doubt your career has evolved since 2007.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yes, [laughing].

Inspector Ashley Price – Yeah,  tell us a bit about some of the roles you've done in a bit more depth than, what you liked about them.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah of course. So, after I was in uniform, I went to Child Protection in 2009, and I stayed within that role for around ten years. So, I joined Major Crime in 2019. I was really passionate about child protection, I still am, because there's crossovers of it in Major Crime as well. Multi- agency working is so important, particularly in child protection, but in policing in the whole. I think I just wanted to be able to sort of help those that are very vulnerable and can't often speak up for themselves and there's no one more vulnerable than children really so, I was lucky to be in that role for so long and I enjoyed it.

I dealt with lots of cases that went to court, primarily kind of involving historic child sexual offences so really important work, in protecting other children as well in the future so something that I'm really proud of definitely.

Inspector Ashley Price – So Emily, you're a detective, in the Major Crime Department, what's major crime?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – So Major Crime is a department within Kent Police where we investigate murder, attempt murder, stranger rape and kidnap, those kind of acquisition offenses so, we're very reactionary when those jobs come in so, there's two teams of us, there's one at Folkestone and then there's one at North Kent as well. So, we have officers, as detectives we would be expected to go out and carry out enquiries, take statements, speak to witnesses, obtain CCTV, review phone downloads, there's so many different aspects to being a detective in Major Crime. So, I think that a real importance of trait for somebody who wants to be a detective in Major Crime is that you have to be able to speak to people.

Technology is evolving all the time and it is really important in our role, and in policing in general, and lots of our cases, we get fantastic evidence from things like CCTV, from phones, but it is really important that you can still speak to people, witnesses are important, and having you know the public confidence and public support is paramount really to what we do. So there's lots of aspects, lots of going out and doing things, and doing enquiries, completing enquiries it can take you to different counties, on enquiries, there's also lots of work that you have to do in the background to produce reports that potentially and eventually will end up in court so, giving evidence in court. So you get exposed to a lot in Major Crimes, it's a really fantastic and enjoyable role if you, if you're interested in being a detective.

Inspector Ashley Price – Sounds very interesting.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah.

Inspector Ashley Price – So, other than being a detective, and a good one at that, what other things do you do?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – So, another role that I carry out quite regularly is a family liaison officer. So, when somebody has lost their life, so, when we investigating a murder, the victim's family will have a family liaison officer so they'll be the family's point of contact throughout the investigation, throughout any subsequent trials and court cases so, we're there as a, we act as a conduit between the investigation and the family so, we're there to support the family, we're there to investigate so, there may well be situations where we have to ask the family questions about the victim and about the life of the victim, in order to assist the investigation.

I've done it multiple times in Major Crime and it's one of my favourite roles as well, it's really important that the family get a good service and that they have a point of contact because often there can be lots going on within a murder investigation and, particularly nowadays, because there's so much on social media, and stuff that's reported that's not always factually correct so it's important that the family have a point of contact within the investigation team, so they know what they hear from me or from other family liaison officers, that's the truth, and that's what we know as far as the investigation is concerned. So, it's a really important role for them and it doesn't kind of just, it's a role that goes on throughout the whole process, so it's really important that you're dedicated to that role because it can mean that you're away again at court for periods of time ‘cause I work part-time, so when court cases come up as a case officer or as a family liaison officer, I have to work full-time because that's what that role needs, and it's just having that understanding but, I think within Kent Police, certainly over my career, the flexibility is amazing within the police and, I'm really well supported in that role, in working part-time and I'm able to manage and sort of juggle both aspects of my life really, because I'm supported well.

Inspector Ashley Price – You're doing so much as a detective, and a family liaison officer, and you said you're part-time, how does that, how does that work with the organisation being part-time?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – I began being part-time when I came back to the police after having maternity leave after my first daughter. So, I knew that I wanted to be able to come back to the police because it's a career that I'm really passionate about but knew that I wanted to have that balance with being around for my children. So, I came back as part-time, initially to my Child Protection role, and then when I joined Major Crime in 2019 they were able to, keep that flexible working pattern in place, and in the main, it works really well. I think you have to understand that there does need to be a level of flexibility on my behalf as well, because if I want to, if I want to be involved in those big jobs, if I want to be involved in as a case officer, then I have to be able to be flexible, but although it has meant that at times I've had to work those days that I'm meant to have off, I have had you know flexibility given backward, back to me and I just had the summer holidays off [laughing] so that was kind of promised to me by my superintendent after having spent 17 weeks away from home, so I managed to have the whole of the summer holidays off with my children which was amazing. So, there is that flexibility both ways.

Inspector Ashley Price – Obviously, you hear certain things that happen with children, abuse and the like, how do you manage a home and work life balance?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah, it's difficult, it is difficult at times. It's not always easy, I've got a lot of support at home, my husband's very supportive, I've got family and friends, but I've always had really supportive colleagues. I've been really lucky with the people that I've worked with over the years. You know not just within the police, but within the Crown Prosecution Service, barristers I've worked with so, I've always had a really good network of people that I could speak to, particularly within the police and I think that's really important.

Inspector Ashley Price – I describe it as a, more of a police family.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Absolutely, it really is, it really is.

Inspector Ashley Price – and that's comforting isn't it to, you have your pressures with your role, and I have my pressures with my role, it's so important to have, perhaps closed door sessions or phone calls with you, your close colleagues isn't it, to have that life balance because without that, it would be more of a harder job, than what it is already, do you think?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah absolutely and particularly I think rank-wise as well, I've always had very good rank structure and, you know my sergeants, my inspectors, my DCIs have always been approachable, and I think that's really important, because you know, you need that network around you definitely.

Inspector Ashley Price – Yes absolutely. So, how do you manage yourself with the emotional impact of the cases you deal with, and perhaps sometimes taking that home with your own children?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah of course, and I think it's really important to have those two worlds separated, but it's not always possible. I think all of our experiences in life shape the people that we are, shape the police officers that we are probably and the parents that we are. So, I think probably I'm definitely very protective of my children. [laughing]

Inspector Ashley Price – That’s understandable.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Because of what I've been exposed to but, yeah, you're right it is about finding that balance because you don't want to push that too far one way. My husband isn't in the police so he's able to give perhaps a more balanced [laughing] view on some things then I maybe am, I don't know, it seems to work.

Inspector Ashley Price – Good. So is there a moment or a particular call or incident that stays with you, maybe a proud moment in your career, of course you’ve just been awarded Police Officer of the Year.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah.

Inspector Ashley Price – Is there anything else that stays with you?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – I mean that was a really humbling experience and something that you know I am immensely proud of. In Major Crime we are a team, so there was a team that work, that I worked with but it was very nice to kind of have the comments that I had so it was it was really humbling, but I think probably the court case results, there's nothing quite like it, when you get guilty verdicts, particularly when you've put such hard work in and when the families have been forced to sit through days and days of evidence and hearing what's happened to their loved ones and the victims themselves. It's a really tough process for them, and they're very brave to come forward and to speak out about crimes that have happened against them so, I think it's really important to celebrate that and to know that they've, you know, they've sought justice and they've got justice, and they've been believed, they've been listened to, so yeah those court results will probably stay with me.

Inspector Ashley Price – and a lot of these cases go on for many years don't they? So, it's quite how do you motivate the family to keep going after so long and many years the cases.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah, it can be really difficult, but you just have to maintain that contact when you can. Not all victims want to have that constant contact particularly when there's long drawn out periods where you're waiting for advice or you're waiting for lines of enquiries to be completed, I think it's just again about listening to the wants and needs of the public and who we're dealing with, and just knowing that we're there if they've got questions and that we're a support network for them as well, and putting them in contact with other agencies that can support them too is really important.

Inspector Ashley Price – and are there any common misconceptions that you've seen or heard about policing?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah, I mean, that over the more recent years, there's been a really difficult period for policing. I think, well maybe I'm wrong in saying, but particularly for men in policing with misogyny, those kind of characters that have really be the kind of police name down, and I think it's so important to understand that there may have been cultures like that, but, actually for most of my career I've never come across staff or other officers that behave in that way, maybe luckily, but I'm really proud of the police force that I work for and the other police officers that I work with. I think those misconceptions are hard, and if people have experienced that kind of behaviour, then it's difficult to overcome that for other people. I think it's just about, continuing to strive to do your best, and to treat people in a way that, I always police, in a way that I would hope my family if they needed the police, if they had to call on the police and needed our help. I try to deal with people how I would want my family to be dealt with.

Inspector Ashley Price – and I take it quite personally as well when there's, another officer in the media which has done something because we work so hard, don't we…

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – yes

Inspector Ashley Price – we all do police officers and police staff, work so hard, to maintain the integrity and then it takes one person doesn't it to, to bring it down and then quite hard to bring it back up isn't it?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah it is, it's really difficult, and this is a really good way of showing that there is another side to policing, that we are human because quite often you don't really hear about the good stories and the good things that we've done, it's often, obviously more interesting for people to hear about when we've messed up or got things wrong, so yeah it is upsetting, but I think we just have to continue to try and do what we can to eradicate those views I guess as best we can.

Inspector Ashley Price – Has there been a moment in your career when you've realised the risks of what you do?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah, I think it's really important to keep your home life and work life separate, which is difficult sometimes because it is a role that encompasses our lives sometimes, you know, we can be off duty but we're never off duty you know if we see something happening then we have to do something, and of course we do. I think probably when I'm with my children that's probably more evident because you feel more vulnerable, because they're only young and they're your priority, but of course you have this role to carry out as well.

I think when I was in Child Protection we often had to go to concern for welfare calls or if children have made disclosures during the school day, we would have to go out to see them, and that was quite a difficult thing to do because, you're acting quite reactively to what children are saying, of course, and listening to what they're saying, and then you have to make a decision, a really difficult decision because you would never want to leave a child in a situation where they're at risk, but of course in Child Protection, our role would include us having to take children into police protection which is a really difficult thing to do particularly, for parents, it's never easy and for children, so that was a real hard period I think in my career, when I'd have to make those decisions.

Inspector Ashley Price – and I've done that myself on a frontline policing role is Child Protection and Police Protection powers we have to initiate. Now, I don't have children,

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yep.

Inspector Ashley Price – so I guess for an officer like yourself, to actually do that when you've got children yourself, has got to be harder?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – I think so yeah. I think it is, I think definitely coming back from having had children, there are certain things that perhaps I understood more, and then maybe other things that I would think differently about, and I think it is difficult ‘cause if that ever happened to me, that I'd be devastated, so you know that's not an easy thing for anyone, whatever's happened within a family home, and whatever the risk is, you know people's children are their children and that's a very difficult decision to make.

Inspector Ashley Price – It's hard isn’t it. Yeah and not a nice one. I take no pleasure in authorising child protection or anything like that, but those powers are there to be used.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Of course.

Inspector Ashley Price – if need be, and we're quite strict in relation to when we do utilise those powers don't we?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – yeah, it's not a decision you take lightly.

Inspector Ashley Price – And we’re all human.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah absolutely.

Inspector Ashley Price – So, off the cuff questions now, what's your go-to snack?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – [Laughing], sadly, biscuits, probably it shouldn't be [laughing]. Far too many biscuits,

Inspector Ashley Price – Which ones in particular?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – I do like Jaffa Cakes, but once you start it's difficult to stop.

Inspector Ashley Price – You can’t just have one can you?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – No, no, the biscuit tin in our office definitely gets hit if we're off late, but yeah probably biscuits [laughing].

Inspector Ashley Price – Fair enough.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah.

Inspector Ashley Price – If you was a superhero, what's superpowers would you want?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – I'd love to be able to, obvious one, I'd love to be able to fly, but one of my things I'd have always been interested in and never really taken the time to do is, just to learn more languages. I'd love to speak all languages, so you know what people are saying when they think that you don't know [laughing] so yeah, that would be one of my superhero things.

Inspector Ashley Price – Do you speak any at the moment?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – No, very poor French [laughing].

Inspector Ashley Price – I was going to ask but we leave it at that, I won’t ask you that. If you could choose any celebrity to go out on patrol with, who would it be?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Celebrity wise, I absolutely love Alan Carr, so I think it would have to be him [laughing]

Inspector Ashley Price – I can hear his laugh now.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah, I can in my head, and loads of my colleagues would comment on my laugh so I think together we would have probably quite a good shift [laughing].

Inspector Ashley Price – What's one thing you wish the public knew about being a police officer?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – I think how hard we work, and how much it kind of takes of our own lives, and our own sense of self I suppose because you are exposed to the most awful situations in people's lives. You know we're privileged to be able to step in and to help people when they're at the lowest points in their lives, but also it's really difficult, and we are only human and we do have our own lives, and families so I think it would be to have that understanding of, you know who we are, that we're not just a uniform or just an authority, we are people, and we want to do our best for others.

Inspector Ashley Price – and hopefully by doing things such as this podcast, we'll show people that we are we are human.

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah hopefully.

Inspector Ashley Price – So what advice would you give for anyone wanting to join Kent Police as a police officer?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – I think definitely look into it, go to recruitment drives if they can find out when they are, research it, speak to as many people who are serving currently, or not serving you know, retired police officers they have lots of stories to tell. It certainly is an interesting career; no two days are really the same. So, I think if you, if you have that interest in it then definitely go with it.

When I joined, I had to do an exam, which is a multiple-choice exam, but lots of revision went into that, there's lots of reading to do. Quite often you can get given time within work time to do that, but it is again, lots of your own time that has to go into that understandably because of operational needs. I then had to do a portfolio, I don't know if it's different now, but I had to, there were certain aspects of policing that I had to demonstrate, so interviewing suspects, interviewing victims, lots of taking statements, and that can be evidenced in products that you produce in your work, and also from other officers who witnessed you doing that.

I then had to have an interview and then I became accredited, so it sounds like it was a quick process, but it wasn't, and it is hard work, but it's really rewarding.

Inspector Ashley Price – and you're right by saying no two days are the same, and it's kind of a cliche isn't it with that because I'm sure you and I didn't think a month ago we'll be doing something like this?

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – No.

Inspector Ashley Price – So, it is different isn't it every day

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah.

Inspector Ashley Price – in our individual roles

Detective Constable Emily Hooper – Yeah absolutely.

Inspector Ashley Price – Thank you for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, follow us on Instagram, X, Facebook and LinkedIn where we'll be posting previews of our up and coming episodes. You can watch this episode by subscribing to our YouTube channel and find out more about the variety of opportunities available by searching Kent Police careers. See you soon.